Swiftlet Farming: Million Dollars A Year Income Potential.

Edible Birdnest farming can be considered an ideal, most exciting and a very lucrative business. This venture is suitable for those who live in parts of Cambodia, Southern Thailand, Burma, Malaysia, Vietnam, the Philippine and Indonesia. This blog is dedicated to my findings, crazy ideas, encounters with newbies, comments from friends, local news, pictures relevant to Birdnest plus my personal experiences and knowledge gained in swiftlet farming.

Wednesday, March 5, 2008

How To Increase You Raw Birdnests Value Per Kilogram !!!

I hope you still remember about my article where I mentioned about Mr.Y of Batu Pahat who came to Kuala Lumpur and the next day I took him to Kuala Selangor to visit Mr.A's birdhouse.

Read this http://swiftletfarming.blogspot.com/2008/02/going-to-kuala-selangor.html

The night before we went to Kuala Selangor, I took him to a town outskirt of KL to visit a nest processing center.

The short trip was very valuable where we met the proprietor of the center.

These were the things that I learned from him.

According to him, he came from east Malaysia and have been involved with swiftlet processing way back when he was a young man.Now he is about 40 years old. He used to jungle tracked into Indonesia to search for birdnests and buy them for processing purposes. Due to harship that he usually encountered he decided to settle down in West Malaysia and start a small business in selling life fish and on part time he will still carry out the nests processing works.

He have the following to say and I just wanted to share with my blog readers. (The informations provided are just for reference and I do not provide any guarantees that it will 100% work. U need to think first before your go for the option)

If you harvest your birdnest and sell directly to your buyer, you will only received a standard value of about RM 4,500 - RM 5,000 per kilo.

What more can you do to increase the value of the same nests that you have just harvested?

His answer:

"I can add value to your raw nests by turning it's value from RM4,500/kilo to RM7,500/kilo within a few short days by cleaning/processing them. You bring the raw nests to my processing center and I will do the rest".

These are his words and not mine........

He can proof what he was saying by giving a simple explainations.

The value of raw nests depends on it's cleanliness, shape and the water content. All raw nests are pretty dirty especially those that are harvested using the "After the baby birds leave their nest" technique.

If you get your nests to be cleaned, the nests value will fetch a premium of at least RM3,000. He can even shape the end products to what you want it to be ...

At the same time there will be an increased in weight by about 10% (estimated). This was what he said and please do not harm me on this point.

So for his processing works you need to pay him RM 6 ringgit per nest (about RM720 per kilo) and you earn an extra income of RM3,000 per kilo.

Just imagine if your monthly harvest is 10 kilo? Your monthly income gained is RM30,000. Per year (12 months) you will gain RM 360,000 just doing this simple method.

The RM 6 per nest, according to him, will be self paid since the processed nests gained some 10% weight. True or False ( I am not sure because I have never weight my nests before and after) ????

I cannot confirm his explainations but for me it make a really bloody good sense.

I will surely want to adorpt his advise and my next harvest will surely be sent to this center.

Please be advised that I am not his agent or associate. I am just an explorer who love to learn new things. The idea is good but somebody have to try and see if it works. The good thing is that he operates a fish shop and I don't think a few kilos of birdnests will tempt him to cheat. ...

If I learn something I do want to share the piece of the information with my readers.

If you think that it make sense and you do want to try, I advise you to try a kilo first. After proven result then you can look at a much larger volume.

It is your decision and I am not liable for any loses or misadvanture ....

4 comments:

wooi said...: Harry,
For my opinion u should visit the centre. As i knw, if u use the bleaching agent( normally is H2O2), u able to clean the nest very fast. If without bleaching agent, 1 working normally able to clean about max 8pcs per day(8 hours).; 6:58:00 PM
Pak Harry The Swiftlet Anthusiast !!! said...: Wooi,

I was at the center where they process but I am not sure about the bleaching agent usage.

The cleaning take about 8 to 10 pieces a 8hrs day.

This article is just an information and I do not guarantee of any misadvanture if it does not work.

The issue here is that you can increase your product value by outsourcing the cleaning process.; 1:33:00 AM
seeseng said...: Too good to be true. Period.; 1:29:00 AM
Pak Harry The Swiftlet Anthusiast !!! said...: Dear all,

Today I received this email from the bird processing centre that I visited and make my report.

Please read and try to digest the explainations given:

Quote:

Refer to comments posted on bird's nest processing, the writer like to clarify as follows;

• H2O2 Hydrogen Peroxide is a very strong bleaching agent. It is used to "clean" cave bird's nest or "Mou Yin" If you use H2O2 to "clean" farmed nest, not only you would damage the nest, you would also lose roughly 40%>50% in weight, with the balance "leached" out during the process.

• We do not practice or recommend this method of processing for farmed bird's nests..

• Our output based on present outfit is roughly 100 pieces in 10 hour day. We are able to achieve such output rate is because we have the right techniques and process control.

• Our service not only provide customers with satisfactory "clean" nests but the other valuable gain is the the nests will be re-constructed to near perfect shapes.

• The service charges of MYR6 per piece is only an indicative price. We have to evaluate the received nests to quote an actual price. Normally, it would be between MYR6 to MYR8 per piece depending on its size, shape, feather and filth inclusions.

Anyone interested? Please contact Harry. Just let us have a few pieces to try us out and see the results.

Unquote:

I do hope that all my blog readers understand what the owner of the processing centre is trying to say.

I keep reminding my readers that I am a person who would like to find all the best methods for BH owners to gain more from their harvest.

If my article make sense then good to all of you. If it does not then please don't read my blog any more.

Just go away and perhaps write your own blog....

Since some of you are already very smart then why should you read my blog ???

Go away and do what is good for you ...

I hate to receive destructive comments .....

I spend hours of my bed time to come out with something good and you just have nothing to do but bad mouthing my effort ....; 11:32:00 PM

Tikam Batu BH: Just After 2 Weeks This BH Nearly Doubled Its Tenants !!!

One the revamp operation is completed those birds started to enjoy playing at the main entrance areas and soon after started to investigate the nesting areas. Once they entered there is a very high chances that they will soon become this BH permanent tenants. The BH entrance hole now changes shape. Its monkey house structure used to be covered with a roof but now I took it down. Main reason being I need to install those powerful external sound tweeters. The BH floors are wet. Now we see the changes. After just 2 weeks the number of tenants nearly double.

Taman Anggerik BH: With a newly erected monkey house.

This BH is showing alot of potential. After changing its top entry to a monkey house entry those birds seems to love coming in and out of the BH. Yesterday the BH owner entered the BH for some works and found that at noon time there were a number of birds playing inside the BH. What I told him was to stay away from entering unless very necessary. If he entered try not to switch on those light. It is wise to learn the correct way to enter a newly revamped BH, I told him. The number of bird shit spots on the floor is encouranging.

This BH Was Not Affected By Those Hot Weather !!!

Remember about this BH that I revamped? Today have a good follow up chat with the owner and he again complained that he cannot enter his BH every time he drive up from Serendah Selangor. Pak Harry thanks to you and now there are simply too many birds inside after your revamp works. Very glad to know that every time I called him he still blamed me for making his BH so successful. I told him to be very careful not to let anything to interfere that might make those birds run away. Biggest concern will be those owls and rats.

A BH with A very High Chances of Doubling Its Nests Population !!!

Kuala Berang BH Will Start Soon !!!

Visited and compiled a set of report to it's owner. A long list of this which I recommended him to do. I know very well that he cannot effort to spend too much as such I recommended to him to revamp only one of the two floors. I push the idea of installing a hexagonal tweeter plus maybe a bazooka. The external walls needs some plastering and perhaps painted with special solar reflecting paint. I pointed to him about how important are those internal sound tweeters and fake nests. I think he understood my good intention. I will monitor him and his BH progress. Let us hope this BH will start to attract more birds in.

Tanjung Karang BH Performance !!!

After 4 months the nests number jumped by 46%. This is something very common to happen when your BH is revamped and with a number of new things installed. For this BH the sound system is something that your should adopt. Look at the two bazzoka tweeters and those pole tweeters. I told the owner that the bazzokas should be directed to the flying path and to the most successful BH closed to his BH. We did it for him and now nearly all birds that passed his BH will come into his BH. A splendid achievement and now looking at touching 100% within the next 4 months. Call me if you wanted your BH to achieve the same. No 100% guarantee but will try our best !!!

Used To Be 300 Nests !!!

Now already crossed 3000 nests. Very happy to be given the opportunity to be associated with the growth of this BH located somewhere in Raub, Pahang. One interesting thing l discovered while inspecting this BH was the used of multiple sounds for both the external and internal. The owner used all the 5 sounds he purchased from my collection. He plays two external sounds and 3 internal sounds. Those birds are not confused but like them very much. One thing for sure he learned a lot of things from me but I have to admit that I too learned a lot from him !!!

Rompin BH Revamp Project Is On !!!

Finally the owner confirmed wanting my presence at his BH. Yes the Rompin BH owner called today and wanted to know when can I mobilize to his BH. I told him to allow me at least one week to get some items ready to ship down to his BH. I need to confirm with the nesting plank supplier plus to bring a car load of gadgets before bringing my workers. Tentative date is Jan 27th 2015. I might take at least 3 weeks to complete the two floors (He decided to do up the top and the middle floor). If you are keen to learn something please ring this number 017 7551318

Rantau Eco Park BH: From Top Entry To Monkey House !!!

This BH used to be with a top entry type of opening. A few weeks back the owner agreed to install a monkey house entry type. On Jan 6th 2015 I installed a new hexagonal tweeter and external sound tweeters. With the completion this will be the only BH in this Rantau Eco Park with a monkey house entry. Let me monitor its progress and will let you all know how effective it will be. Call me if you want to know why at 017 7551318. As at Jan 9th 2015 the total number of birds entering in the evening is 55.

A BH That Have A Potential Of Producing Super Grade Raw Nests !!!

Very rare to come across a BH that show a big potential in producing Super Grade nests. They are produced my those species pf birds that are big in size. Upon close examination of their nests I sense something unusual. They looks very large and thick. In the everning I confirmed my suspicion. Yes those birds that entered his BH are those big size birds. Tip to tip might be about 11 inches while most are around 10 inches. However the bad news for the owner was the BH condition. The way the BH was put into operation seems to be wrong. Let us hope that once he revamp the BH he will see what I hope for.

Alor Gajah BH Painted Black Inside and Using "Duress" Sound !!!

This BH should have done better if the owner knows about sounds. During my recent visit I discovered this BH was using "Duress" sound as its external sound. "Duress" is commonly used to carry out bird call test. Very careless and have very little idea about swiftlet farming. This is normally happened when the owner have very little idea how to select the right sound. He simply shaft in any sound that he can reach. Another strange thing found was the floors and walls which the owner totally painted in black. Another very big error was the positioning of the connecting door to the lower floors. The "LAL" holes were opened to the covenience of human but not those wild birds. If not because of these mistakes this BH should have at least 400-500 nests.

Kubang Pekan BH: After 5-6 Years This BH was Reactivated !!!

The owner claimed that she appointed a very well known consultant to erect this BH. However he failed to complete. During my first visit this BH was not in operation and there were about 30 fruit bats. I took 9 days to renovate it. Opened a new entrance hole and shut the old. A new LAL was opened and installed about half ton of additional nesting planks. The sound system was totally new with more internal and external sound tweeters. After only one week into operation can see at least 30 birds entering late in the evening. Wonderful experience and the owner thank me a million times.

Located At Tangkak Johor !!!

Not a single nest after almost 3 years. This BH faced a very similar "Blacklisting" symptom by those swiftlet. A very rare case but it does happen when the BH have a very severe defect. The owner simply cannot detect any fault unless he bring in some experience BH doctor who might be able to trace what was wrong. Set down with the owner (a Dato) and wrote down what he should do. He called asking for my time to come and make the necessary commissioning. I told him just let me know when the revamp operation is completed.

This BH Is Being Blacklisted By Swiftlet !!!

Have you ever come across a BH being blacklisted? Not by CTOS or KRIS but Facifagus birds (swiftlet). Frankly I have never came across before. Well those impossible thing can become true when your BH is wrongly designed. This 3 stories tall BH (120 'X 20' X 8') located somewhere in Kedah was with not a single nest after about 3 years into operation. Not one nest. The owner already engaged 3 "Consultants". The third consultant claimed to own about 3 highly populated BHs but he was clueless on how to turn around this BH. I discovered why this BH was blacklisted and wrote a long visit report for the owner to chew. I know the exact reasons and I also know how to activate this blacklisted BH. Let us hope that the owner will approve my recommendations and let me turn it around. If approved I would love to invite all of you to come and see before I revamp and after the revamp operation. Call me to book the visit time soonest . 017 7551318 my phone number.

Slowly Sinking But Should Not Be A Big Problem !!!

At first the owner claimed that his BH is sinking. After that he said that there is something inside which is preventing those birds from coming in and staying. "Harry I believed that there is a Ghost inside". When visited the data room was 1 foot flooded with water. However the location looks very promising and there were at least 10 nests inside. There is no ghost but the reason why those birds are not coming in and staying is mainly due to the many errors found inside. The nesting rooms were simply too bright. The sound system sucks and there was no proper sound system. During the visit the sound were dead and only one amplifier was installed. This is why the BH is in ICU stage. I promised to prepare a visit report for him to digest.

Sedili BH: Doing Well Now !!!

Sagil BH: Completed and Reactivated On June 2nd 2016

I took 11 days to restore this 7 years old BH with only about 145 nests. The main entrance hole was equipted with a number of new tweeters, the monkey house was added with new tweeters, a hole allowing morning light was opened, and each floor now has two to three VIP rooms. The nesting planks were cleaned and most of the corner covers were removed. Replaced old internal sound tweeters with new one and they were installed at the right locations. Installed almost 400 pieces of fake nests. This BH was regularly sprayed with Mutiara Aroma.

Carey Island BH: A Brand New BH About To Become The Best BH In The World !!!

I was given the task to turn this newly completed BH to become the best in the world. I am sure I can as long as the number of swiftlet are plenty around it. The owner claimed that the number of birds found on the golf course just a few meters away are plenty. Which mean if they pass by this BH they will be invited to be a permanent tenant. I will take at least 15 days to complete the installation of nesting planks, sound system and humidity system. On the top of that a number of owl prevention techniques will be installed. Let us hope that within a couple of months there will be a number of them staying.

Merdeka Jaya BH !!!

Took 7 days to complete revamping this BH with about 60 odd nests. Owner claimed that the nests remain the same after more than 4 years. After my short visit I listed a few important things that I think need adjustments. He took my word and let see if all the things I mentioned are true. One very interesting thing that was done with this BH was the installation of a monkey house. It used to have those top entry but I insisted that he changed it to a monkey house type. I deployed a number of external sound tweeters and those birds simply love them.

Belara BH Finally Completed !!!

The revamp operation took almost two weeks. Among the things done was the enlargement of the main entrance hole, the shortening of the roof tiles, the installation of hexagonal tweeter, two mini bazookas plus proper number of external sound tweeters. Inside the BH a new hole (LAL) was hacked, a number of partition walls erected, cross woods installed, lots of fake nests installed too. The BH currently runs on two external sounds and two internal sounds. The number of internal sound tweeters installed was 400 pieces. There were some interesting new gadgets installed to make the BH more attractive. First is the mist pump with 15 nozzles spray on each floor and bamboo mats. To force those old couples away from 90* corners plastic chain about 6" long were installed.

2015 Guinness Book Of Record !!!

An interesting and true story about this BH located in Cenih, Kemaman. I remember revamping this BH in July 2013. At that time the number of nests was 60 with about 188 birds staying. After a 2 weeks of hard work I hand over the BH back to the owner to look after it. I told him to make sure the sounds were not stopped and no disturbances from those predators. Today April 10th 2015, about 1 year and 10 months I was shocked with the news that the number of nests inside is more then 500. This is about 733% up from 60 nests before the revamp operation. I am still very shocked but feel very happy for the owner. He was lucky to have engaged me and with all my dedication and knowledge managed to lure so many new birds into his BH. The one at the back seems to be stuck at about 50 nests. I am getting better everyday. Now I need to set my record higher. How about 1000% ? Call me if you wish to know more about this story !!!

Kinarut BH: After 3 Years With more than 535 nests !!!

I was involved with this BH from its design stages. The owner just called telling me that he was at his BH a few hours ago. The number nests is 535 pieces and increasing steadily and now there are more new nests on the straight plank areas. This must be the second or third generation. I told him earlier that during early stages most of his tenants will occupy those 90* corners. Once the new generation start to return home they will start to colonies the straight areas usually closed to the nests where they were hatched and raised. His target is to touch 1000 nests by June 2015. So far harvested 500 nests and they keep coming back.

Latest External Sound Tweeters Arrangements !!!

The above picture tells you something new. This picture was taken at Rompin BH. There are two bazooka tweeters once facing the birds flying path on their way home and one facing the roof area of a successful BH. The hexagonal is located just above the main entrance door and about 2 feet high above the roof. There is also a power tweeter at the right side. Owner claimed that he can see almost instantly when he played the external sound using the above system. "I tested the sound again the other evening. The nearby swiftlet came. About 30-50 at any one time. They go crazy hearing the sound, chasing one another. Flying around like flies. Thank you again Pak Harry."

Kodiang Kedah BH !!!

A very rare unit with 200 nests within 2 years into operation. I was invited to view the BH and listed some comments to make the BH realized what is coming ahead. I told him that his BH will soon reached 3 years old. This is when the 3 years BH syndrome will affect his BH if he is not careful. The syndrome is due to dryness of the BH. Once they become very dry all the nests inside will start to crack. Once this happened there will be a lot of young birds with stuck feet. This will soon scared all the young birds from returning home. The syndrome will stop the nests from growing.

Felda Belara BH Revamp Might Be My Next Most Challenging Project !!!

Something which I never expected but it came. There is a very strong indication that the affected BH will be visited and revamped by me and my team. By Jan 26th 2015, I might receive the confirmation. I am looking forward to revamp this BH since it has a very strong potential. Currently the number of nest numbers is more 800 and I told the person concern that it can easily be increased to at least 1600 within 8-12 months after my revamp operation. This revamp operation will greatly benefit the owner and my reputation. I wanted to deliver what I promised. To double within 8-12 months is not an easy task. However with the many experiences that I have gone through plus my personal visit to this BH I know I can. Keep your finger cross and please pray for it to come true !!!!

Kuala Rompin Eco-Park !!!

A soon to be fitted BH at an Eco Park at Kuala Rompin. I visited this BH and told the owner on what he should do. If he allowed me to carry out the nesting planks installation, the sound system and etc I would like to invite any one who wanted to learn more about swiftlet farming. You will be given the task to do some work during the fitting and from there you will be able to learn a lot of things suitable for your BH. Call me at 017 7551318 if you are keen to expand your knowledge !!!

Know Me And You Will Be Okay With Swiftlet Farming !!!

Just in case you bum into someone who looks like the picture above just say 'How are you Pak Harry". I am a passionate Swiftlet Farmer and currently dedicated my time on a full time basis on conducting research towards finding the ultimate methods on how to be a successful swiftlet farmer. Currently operates a few BHs and conducting Seminars on swiftlet farming on a regular basis. Remember I am not a "Consultant" or "Sifu" but an enthusiast who believed that swiftlet farming should not be a secret !!! I am very closed to getting the right design, the sound system, most effective sounds. aroma for walls, pheromone for nesting planks, automatic humidity control, VIP rooms and many more that, Last Tango technique I believed everybody should know. For more information you should attend my Seminar or call 017 755 1318 or write to harryswiftlet@yahoo.com!!!

My 10 Best External Sounds Collection !!!

I strongly recommend these external sounds to be a part of your sound library.

Use them as and when you feel that you need to pop up the number of birds playing at the entrance hole.

1) Super External

2) Super K

3) KingKong

4) Super R

5)Marvelous Cloud

6)KPOP

7) NBU

8)Super 208

9) Selking

10) Pukau2

Internal Sounds:

1) SuperBabyKing

2) Super ISB

3) SuperColony

You can have all at a fraction of its normal cost.

If you know how to use them properly you will see better result within a few short months.

Call me at 0177551318 for more details.

The Plastic Chain : Why So Important ???

One very effective way to reduce the number of 90* shape raw nest during your harvesting season is to install these plastic chain at every 90* occupied corners. You need to make sure the 90* corner is with a tenant and once their babies flew away harvest its nests and hand this plastic chain. Allow the chain to swing freely. The moment the same tenant return home to erect their new nest they will be a kind of disturbed by the chain installed. Since they love the spot they will erect their new nest beside the chain. As soon as that decision is made your nest from this specific couple will turn into 180* shape nest. Try this idea if I were you.

Once You Receive My Visit Report You Will Say That I am Simply The Best !!!

Just received this email message from a BH owner.

Try to read carefully and I think you might want me to drop by and visit your BH too.

"Dear Harry, your report is indeed very professional and the detailed diagrams will certainly help my friend to do exactly what you have depicted. I am glad I managed to have obtain ed your services.

I have been promised the work will start next week.let us hope this will be carried out as I am keen to see the outcome of all these changes and modifications

Very interesting indeed.

Thanks ,

Dr L"

If You Happened To Owned A Sick BH !!!

If your BH is not doing well after a few good months or years, there must be something not right.

I usually term it as "a sick BH". If she is sick you need to get a doctor over to check what can be wrong with it.

Once that is done get the precise description of what to be done and how to do the changes.

Try to get a "Doctor" that you know well and willing to travel to your remote location.

If you cannot find one please get Pak Harry at 017 7551318.

Trust me he will be the best to find or get you the right diagnosis.

Super Pheromone: Super3X in Spray Canisters !!!

This is something very new and my latest product to lure more birds to be your tenants. I called it Swiftlet Farm Super3X. Made of liquid pheromone but with three times its concentration. It is still with no label yet. If you have tried the standard concentration and it works you might want to try this newly made product. Limited to only 5 persons and first come first served basis. Suitable for luring swiftlet to occupy your nesting wood (plain flat areas), fake nests, corners and around your tweeters. Call me at 017 7551318 for more details and perhaps to place your order.

Super Pheromone Aerosol Spray !!!

The most powerful nesting plank aroma. Proven to be very effective in Sabah, Sarawak, Vietnam, Cambodia. Penang, Dungun, Gambang and recently in Nibong Tebal. It is specially formulated spray that can be sprayed onto your BH nesting planks. Each cannister is about 150ml and you can spray not less than 150 times. If properly applied & you have swiftlet visiting your BH it will gives you an immediate result (within 10 - 14 days). Call 017 755 1318 to order. If you wish to read more about super pheromone please visit http://superpheromone.blogspot.com

Still The Chart Topper: The Black Cloud

BabyKing Internal Sound Used In Thailand !!!

A nice comment from Mr Samphan of Bangkok on BabyKing:

Dear Harry,

Hope you are well. Two days ago, I visited my BH (3 years old) and started using the BabyKing sound (I live in Bangkok while my BH is located in the southern area).

In the past, I used external sound as internal sound (I never own a true internal sound before). My story is I used to have bad exerience with other two internal sounds that I bought.

They were bad. The birds were scared away at times when I turned them on.

I'm now pleased that the birds seem ok with the sound.

It looks just fine.

Thanks.

The Black Cloud Sincere Comment !!!

Fendona Insecticide From BASF

One of the most exciting product which can help you to remove those fleas, ticks , cockcroah, spiders,ants and flies. This insecticide concentrate is odorless and kills only those creatures that do not have back bones. You need to mix about 200 - 400 ml to 10 liters water. Use proper spray gadget and make sure you wear proper protective cover expecialy your skin and nose. Spray your BH once every two months. The insecticide comes in 1 liter glass bottle and sold at RM 80 excluding freight. To purchase you might want to call 017 755 1318.

Long Range Swiftlet Bazooka !!!

Welcome To All Newbies !!!

This swiftlet farming blog started sometime in 2007 November. I created it as my personal diary on all those things that I discovered.
After a number of calls received I decided to make it more like a reference site to those newbies who wanted to get into the swiftlet industry.It has been kept as a secret industry where no one wanted to share their knowledge.
May be with my small contribution I hope more and more people will open up their mind and willing to share what they know.
I am not a "Consultant" or a "Sifu" but just a person who loves swiftlet farming.
All what I wrote are from my own discoveries and I hope they are useful to all who stumbled onto this blog.
My aim is to provide as many information as possible so that it will reduce the current failure rate by 3-5%.

I have discovered many new ideas and gadget on how to pull those birds into your new BH and how to make them stays.

Please help me to reduce the failure rate. The best you can do is refer this swiftlet blog site to your friends and if you can try to attend my once a two months Swiftlet Farming Seminar.You will be a totally changed person once you attended my seminar. Trust me. I will share everything that I know about swiftlet farming.

Swiftlet Farming: Million Dollars A Year Income Potential.

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Wednesday, March 5, 2008

How To Increase You Raw Birdnests Value Per Kilogram !!!

4 comments: